I very much relate to the original post and I love how well you put this concept into words. I very much prefer very high stakes, which naturally involves both physical and mental trauma on the loser.
Like you, I think the trauma isn't necessarily a bad thing and can grow both participants as a person. I admit that even after both giving and receiving several sessions involving extreme physical and mental trauma, I continue to seek out the same type of stakes, and even try to push my own limits further.
I think it is important, prior to the match, to specifically discuss the level of mental and physical trauma that will be inflicted on the loser, and make sure we both agree. Even discussing specific type of abuse or trauma that might occur. I think if anyone is man enough to agree to this type of match, the winner needs to do his part and follow through on everything discussed, no matter if the loser begs or cries for it to stop.
As someone who was traumatized from bullying back in school, I'm very cautious about taking a match. I know my fear is based on worry about the bruising bloody or just the shame of losing. Also the shame of having body contact with another man and enjoying it.
As time goes on, I am getting over these fears picking larger opponents I have embraced the jobber role most of the time. And accept the stakes, although never gone all the way with a stranger.
I am also looking to heel in the future some trim smaller guy or ever some big guy for fun .
And yes I'm always worried about taking the results of a stake agreed on and saying that's enough am they smile and do something even tougher on me
Just adding a note that hasn’t been stated yet (as far as I can tell)…two people can agree to stakes beforehand, sexual or not, but consent can be withdrawn at anytime. Literally anytime. No “agreement” should take priority over an adult who no longer consents.
It’s important that both parties know that for themselves and respect that with the person they are with.
And in all circumstances, it should be a default that trauma is not inflicted, especially when endangerment or se*ual as*ault is a line the can be crossed (and many have due to lack of communication/understanding).
This is a great topic to discuss and it sounds like you have handled your experiences well. I have been traumatized from fights, when i was much younger and did not fully comprehend what i was getting into. I still get triggered on rare occasion. It definitely was a learning experience for me. I'm a risk taker, high risk, high reward, but i when i'm on the losing end i have to remember that.
I still love fighting with stakes, it makes things more intense which i love. I just know i have to accept the consequences if i loose.
It’s a hard topic. For me i have to know i want it or willing to risk it. Usually part of a weird kink but still. make sure the stakes or abuse is something in line even if extreme. Ive been on both ends and part is making sure you both want it and understand the severity and you aren’t backing out. Most guys will want to and freak out before they sob so that is really hard. I think part is knowing you picked to risk it and accept the consequences. There will be regret at some point but have to man up take what you agreed to and know you chose this. I think if you are just the “victim” you will take it the the wrong way. But i get it its hard with all a extreme emotions so i really think it should line up with what you want or believe in
Hey guys, I wanted to broach the topic of Post, Post Match abuse. Particularly abuse and/or usage that's intense enough that it leads to legimate mental trauma to the loser. Wether it be a viewpoint, sharing a personal anecdote (having recieved or inflicted trauma), or just curious inquiries.
Let me preface by saying that I believe that any post match stakes that result in emotional mental trauma must be agreed on prior. Both fighters must have had a clear discussion prior to the match that they'd be risking mental trauma if they lost. Not only that, but there is a clear understanding to what they perceive as mental trauma and how the potential winner will go about inflicting that mental trauma while maintaining both fighter's safety.
I personally have had several instances where I was put through abuse intense enough that it resulted in trauma and fight or flight panic had kicked in. Even to the point of lasting nightmares, physical aversion, PTSD triggers etc. I also know I have inflicted that on others as well. I even continue to seek out matches and stakes that involve that level of mental anguish to the loser.
I may get some counter arguments, but I believe that that intense of an abusive experience isn't all bad though, especially when handled respectfully. After a match and stakes I always will tend to the loser. Basic things like getting them a towel, water and assist in any recovery they need. When I abuse someone to the point that I know I'm causing them mental trauma I also will tend to sit and talk with the loser to help them cope and understand what they just went through. Because of how disorienting and overwhelming dealing with the effects of trauma can be (heightened emotional state, memory loss, the release of chemicals that cab cause uncontrollable shaking, nightmares, physical aversion, and potential traumatic stress triggers, etc), I especially do that with first timers to help with the mental recovery. It can also lead to a very close attachment and bond that is formed between the abuser and the abused.
Men, by and large tend to repress a lot of emotion and when you've been physically and mentally traumatized you become extremely vulnerable and a lot of barriers are no longer sustainable. I've had men break down sobbing over something totally unrelated to what they just went through. Getting beaten and used so horrifically tends to break down any mental barriers one might have and whatever was overwhelming them emotionally outside of the metaphorical ring, will often come out. I never try to play therapist, since I'm not one, but I just listen and offer whatever encouragement they need. Typically spending the time assuring them that it's okay that they are ugly sobbing and sharing. But its typically just me answering questions to their confusion of why they're even sharing this with me at all, especially with what I just put them through.
I'm also thankful to the men who have traumatized me as well (I get the irony) and yet looked after me and listened to me when I was also in that same mental state. Goes to show that even though we can sometimes be really twisted violent primates, we still have a respect for anyone willing to risk themselves to this extent.
So what are your questions, thoughts, anecdotes, words of advice about trauma that's inflicted during and after matches?
Wow! I didn’t know that matches can be this much intense! Clearly I’m a beginner here lol 😅
Nevertheless, I’m traumatized by other things, and I know how it feels. I keep fluctuating between pretending that nothing happened and being stressed by the memories of what happened.
I’d feel much better if the people who caused me the trauma have a conversation with me to explain and apologize.
To your point, I see how a conversation after the match is crucial to ensure that both participants have a solid and mutually agreed on framing of what happened. Even better, if the framing excludes other thoughts that may come to mind. This is mainly to reduce the buildup of (self-defeating?) thoughts that the traumatized person may think of as the memories cross by in the future.
Here’s an example:
Frame post match punishment as an entertainment activity that was agreed on in advance. And exclude the idea that the punishment activity defines who the looser or the winner are as people.
I don’t know if this makes sense - I also am not a therapist - but I thought to speak my mind 😄
Hold on a minute. If both participants fully understand what they are getting into the losing is the BIGGEST part of the equation. Any remarks from the winner or feelings the loser feels should be taken as constructive criticism instead of the bs recommendations generally followed by a regular match. How else do you want to get better unless you hear how you can improve?
If you take it personal it’s ALL on you and don’t participate in such a match.
FOR ME - I absolutely hate losing but damn all I want to do is understand myself better and become a better wrestler. You can’t hurt my feelings. I lose I’d rather know my short coming than simply telling everyone “I’m tougher than I look” and I’m a “great guy off the mats”. I already know that. Tell me something I don’t know OR something I’ve been lying to myself about, I want to get better.
There is a huge benefit that isn’t mentioned is “that which doesn’t kill us makes us stronger”. Mike u mentioned being grateful for the times u have been humbled (my words not urs) I have traumatized some people however they absolutely knew what was coming. I’ve been humbled and I don’t know that I took it all that well but I never made it their problem. I don’t recall any trauma. The only reason I ever agree is because I only want to become tougher. I’ve been beaten pretty much my entire life but I had great therapy and no one will ever break my spirit.
I think it’s important to find the right people to fight. That might cut down on any trauma . I don’t know just a thought.
malebonding (0 )
2/04/2024 5:03 AMI very much relate to the original post and I love how well you put this concept into words. I very much prefer very high stakes, which naturally involves both physical and mental trauma on the loser.
Like you, I think the trauma isn't necessarily a bad thing and can grow both participants as a person. I admit that even after both giving and receiving several sessions involving extreme physical and mental trauma, I continue to seek out the same type of stakes, and even try to push my own limits further.
I think it is important, prior to the match, to specifically discuss the level of mental and physical trauma that will be inflicted on the loser, and make sure we both agree. Even discussing specific type of abuse or trauma that might occur. I think if anyone is man enough to agree to this type of match, the winner needs to do his part and follow through on everything discussed, no matter if the loser begs or cries for it to stop.
Matwrestler101 (15)
10/15/2023 1:41 PMAs someone who was traumatized from bullying back in school, I'm very cautious about taking a match. I know my fear is based on worry about the bruising bloody or just the shame of losing. Also the shame of having body contact with another man and enjoying it.
As time goes on, I am getting over these fears picking larger opponents I have embraced the jobber role most of the time. And accept the stakes, although never gone all the way with a stranger.
I am also looking to heel in the future some trim smaller guy or ever some big guy for fun .
And yes I'm always worried about taking the results of a stake agreed on and saying that's enough am they smile and do something even tougher on me
NRNWAlex (16)
10/15/2023 6:57 AMJust adding a note that hasn’t been stated yet (as far as I can tell)…two people can agree to stakes beforehand, sexual or not, but consent can be withdrawn at anytime. Literally anytime. No “agreement” should take priority over an adult who no longer consents.
It’s important that both parties know that for themselves and respect that with the person they are with.
And in all circumstances, it should be a default that trauma is not inflicted, especially when endangerment or se*ual as*ault is a line the can be crossed (and many have due to lack of communication/understanding).
Carlos (0 )
10/13/2023 4:32 AMTotally agree. Assuming freely the risk of accorded stakes, helps to take them even if you're reduced to a fucked piece of meat.
Stevie (15)
9/21/2023 4:21 PMThis is a great topic to discuss and it sounds like you have handled your experiences well. I have been traumatized from fights, when i was much younger and did not fully comprehend what i was getting into. I still get triggered on rare occasion. It definitely was a learning experience for me. I'm a risk taker, high risk, high reward, but i when i'm on the losing end i have to remember that.
I still love fighting with stakes, it makes things more intense which i love. I just know i have to accept the consequences if i loose.
Looking forward to talking more about this.
RelentlessRival (69)
9/20/2023 5:53 AMIt’s a hard topic. For me i have to know i want it or willing to risk it. Usually part of a weird kink but still. make sure the stakes or abuse is something in line even if extreme. Ive been on both ends and part is making sure you both want it and understand the severity and you aren’t backing out. Most guys will want to and freak out before they sob so that is really hard. I think part is knowing you picked to risk it and accept the consequences. There will be regret at some point but have to man up take what you agreed to and know you chose this. I think if you are just the “victim” you will take it the the wrong way. But i get it its hard with all a extreme emotions so i really think it should line up with what you want or believe in
toughfighter mike (27 )
9/17/2023 5:29 AMHey guys, I wanted to broach the topic of Post, Post Match abuse. Particularly abuse and/or usage that's intense enough that it leads to legimate mental trauma to the loser. Wether it be a viewpoint, sharing a personal anecdote (having recieved or inflicted trauma), or just curious inquiries.
Let me preface by saying that I believe that any post match stakes that result in emotional mental trauma must be agreed on prior. Both fighters must have had a clear discussion prior to the match that they'd be risking mental trauma if they lost. Not only that, but there is a clear understanding to what they perceive as mental trauma and how the potential winner will go about inflicting that mental trauma while maintaining both fighter's safety.
I personally have had several instances where I was put through abuse intense enough that it resulted in trauma and fight or flight panic had kicked in. Even to the point of lasting nightmares, physical aversion, PTSD triggers etc. I also know I have inflicted that on others as well. I even continue to seek out matches and stakes that involve that level of mental anguish to the loser.
I may get some counter arguments, but I believe that that intense of an abusive experience isn't all bad though, especially when handled respectfully. After a match and stakes I always will tend to the loser. Basic things like getting them a towel, water and assist in any recovery they need. When I abuse someone to the point that I know I'm causing them mental trauma I also will tend to sit and talk with the loser to help them cope and understand what they just went through. Because of how disorienting and overwhelming dealing with the effects of trauma can be (heightened emotional state, memory loss, the release of chemicals that cab cause uncontrollable shaking, nightmares, physical aversion, and potential traumatic stress triggers, etc), I especially do that with first timers to help with the mental recovery. It can also lead to a very close attachment and bond that is formed between the abuser and the abused.
Men, by and large tend to repress a lot of emotion and when you've been physically and mentally traumatized you become extremely vulnerable and a lot of barriers are no longer sustainable. I've had men break down sobbing over something totally unrelated to what they just went through. Getting beaten and used so horrifically tends to break down any mental barriers one might have and whatever was overwhelming them emotionally outside of the metaphorical ring, will often come out. I never try to play therapist, since I'm not one, but I just listen and offer whatever encouragement they need. Typically spending the time assuring them that it's okay that they are ugly sobbing and sharing. But its typically just me answering questions to their confusion of why they're even sharing this with me at all, especially with what I just put them through.
I'm also thankful to the men who have traumatized me as well (I get the irony) and yet looked after me and listened to me when I was also in that same mental state. Goes to show that even though we can sometimes be really twisted violent primates, we still have a respect for anyone willing to risk themselves to this extent.
So what are your questions, thoughts, anecdotes, words of advice about trauma that's inflicted during and after matches?
Manly sub (0)
10/13/2023 5:48 PM(In reply to this)
Wow! I didn’t know that matches can be this much intense! Clearly I’m a beginner here lol 😅
Nevertheless, I’m traumatized by other things, and I know how it feels. I keep fluctuating between pretending that nothing happened and being stressed by the memories of what happened.
I’d feel much better if the people who caused me the trauma have a conversation with me to explain and apologize.
To your point, I see how a conversation after the match is crucial to ensure that both participants have a solid and mutually agreed on framing of what happened. Even better, if the framing excludes other thoughts that may come to mind. This is mainly to reduce the buildup of (self-defeating?) thoughts that the traumatized person may think of as the memories cross by in the future.
Here’s an example:
Frame post match punishment as an entertainment activity that was agreed on in advance. And exclude the idea that the punishment activity defines who the looser or the winner are as people.
I don’t know if this makes sense - I also am not a therapist - but I thought to speak my mind 😄
Thank you for bringing up the topic.
treetrunks (7)
10/15/2023 4:07 AM(In reply to this)
Hold on a minute. If both participants fully understand what they are getting into the losing is the BIGGEST part of the equation. Any remarks from the winner or feelings the loser feels should be taken as constructive criticism instead of the bs recommendations generally followed by a regular match. How else do you want to get better unless you hear how you can improve?
If you take it personal it’s ALL on you and don’t participate in such a match.
FOR ME - I absolutely hate losing but damn all I want to do is understand myself better and become a better wrestler. You can’t hurt my feelings. I lose I’d rather know my short coming than simply telling everyone “I’m tougher than I look” and I’m a “great guy off the mats”. I already know that. Tell me something I don’t know OR something I’ve been lying to myself about, I want to get better.
nycwrestleguy (0)
10/13/2023 3:18 PM(In reply to this)
wow–well thought out and well stated!
treetrunks (7)
10/11/2023 7:27 AM(In reply to this)
There is a huge benefit that isn’t mentioned is “that which doesn’t kill us makes us stronger”. Mike u mentioned being grateful for the times u have been humbled (my words not urs) I have traumatized some people however they absolutely knew what was coming. I’ve been humbled and I don’t know that I took it all that well but I never made it their problem. I don’t recall any trauma. The only reason I ever agree is because I only want to become tougher. I’ve been beaten pretty much my entire life but I had great therapy and no one will ever break my spirit.
I think it’s important to find the right people to fight. That might cut down on any trauma . I don’t know just a thought.